Tourniquet Discussion Zone

...Begins tonight.

I'm definitely diggin' the whole Doc Jansen theories right now: that the series is a Redemptive Saga between major characters - and I especially like his whole "how will it end" theory. There's a couple of questionable things in there, but it's well worth a read.

In the meantime... gaze upon The Castaways' Last Supper and Theorize:

Lost ruled last night! Who watched? Thoughts? Theories?

Caught the first half, and, well...

(SPOILER - use SELECT-O-VISION TO REVEAL) The first words out of my mouth were "holy crap - the bomb sunk the island".

My second were - "holy crap, the bomb created 2 timelines". As I watched the show, I realized I miscounted. There are 3 timelines. And that's where I'll start again, remembering that I've only seen the first half (second half will be tonight):

The No-Crash Timeline
The biggest thought I had watching the characters on the plane was, "Wow... no redemption for any of them... no recovery, no miracles... everything's back to the way it was, and for most of them, it sucks".

The Ringing Ears Timeline
Sawyer's anger is palatable. For the first time in many seasons, we're seeing the Sawyer that killed Locke's dad (and his the man he blames for own father's suicide). Sawyer's not been dangerous for a long time, and it's almost refreshing to see him back in the role. It's a shame that Juliette died and the fact that Hurley can speak to dead people clarifies his purpose on the Island (I think, anyway). Jack's a wuss.

The Statue Timeilne
Jacob is dead. Long live Smokey / Esau / Flocke / Jacob's Nemesis! The idea of the Smoke Monster being Jacob's Nemesis is... well it feels kinda real within the context of the Island. It makes sense. The monster manipulated Ben into following... itself and used Ben as the loophole to kill Jacob (the fact that dead Jacob showed up in the Ringing Ears Timeline leads me to believe that it may just be 2 timelines instead of 3). It definitely gives me a "how deep does this rabbit hole" go feeling.
(END SPOILER).

Now for my theories:

1. I don't think Locke's story is done yet. For that matter, I'm not entirely convinced he's permanently dead. The dead have arisen before on this island (Christian Shepherd, etc.) and there's no reason to believe Locke's not in line.

2. Ben. I love this character. He's so calculating and careful and so childish in many ways. I kinda like Doc Jansen's theory that the series will end with Ben and Locke repeating the "Do you know how much I want to kill you" scene from last season's conclusion, but I'm not convinced that it'll be Ben in the Nemesis position.

3. The 2 / 3 timelines thing is awesome. Lindeloff and Abrams both showed off the alternate timeline concept pretty well in this past year's Star Trek flick (I should've known that it would have given us some clue into what's happening with Lost), so they've got the skill. The question is: will the timelines be merged or not - and what will be the consequences of that decision?

(SPOILER - Use SELECT-O-VISION TO REVEAL)4. The sunk island in that timeline means that Jack's plan killed potentially 200 people. He's now as much of a murderer as Sawyer, Kate, and Sayid.(END SPOILER) In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but to date, Hurley is the only major crash survivor who has not deliberately murdered (not just killed but murdered) anyone. He did kill Ryan Pryce with the van a few seasons back in a rescue of 3 of his fellow survivors, but considering that Pryce was armed and holding his friends hostage, I wouldn't call that "murder". He also participated in the live burial of Nikki and Paulo, but considering they were annoying - and paralyzed in a way that Hurley and Sawyer both thought they were dead, I don't count that either.

I think there's a reason for that.

SPOILER - use SELECT-O-VISION TO REVEAL:

There are only two concurrent time lines, 5; the LAX time line, and the island 2007 time line. Jacob telling Hurley that he had been killed an hour ago, the temple folk loading for bear in light of that revelation and the anti-Locke and Co. seeing the flare go up from the temple pretty much make that clear. There is not third time line.

Locke is dead. Anti-Locke has taken his place. He manipulated Locke via his brokenness and insecurities in order to use him as his loophole. The only Locke we're going to see is the LAX time line Locke.

LAX also shows us that there has been some growth in at least some of the characters. Jack doesn't overreact to the news that his father's coffin has gone missing. Sure, he's upset, but he rolls with it as best he can. He also appears to no longer be the "what's done is done" Jack of the past. He tells Lock that nothing is irreversible. That's some growth and redemption there, IMO. Sawyer also gets points for not using Kate's elevator predicament as a means for personal gain. Instead he covers for her, allowing her to escape.

I think that the two time lines will converge at some point midway through the season. How that will occur, I am not sure of yet.

Just an aside that I'm sure isn't answered in the 2nd hour...

What makes Jacob's Nemesis think that Ben won't or can't kill him, too?

First off, I loved both hours (especially the first, I think); finally, we get some scenes of good dialogue (that doesn't come off as forced exposition) on the show again (thinking particularly of the Locke/Jack scene in the airport and pretty much any scene with Fake Locke), and I thought the quality seemed improved overall (more on par with the first two seasons) - everything from the acting to the cinematography to simply the tone of the show feels like they're really being careful to try to make this as good as it can be. Let's hope they keep it up.

Now for my theory: Purgatory and nanobots.

Doh! Ok, not really, of course, but here are my actual two cents on the big issues so far...

(highlight to read:)
1) THE TIMELINE THING - I think either the two timelines have to merge somehow, as Luke suggested, or the LAX timeline is actually caused not by the Incident/explosion, but by the events we will see unfold on the Island (either in a sort of "mini-season" like last year had before things got settled into Dharma times, or throughout the whole season). I definitely don't think it will be the sort of thing where they present us two timelines and let us pick whichever one we like better, or say the LAX one is simply a "What if?" timeline with no real consequences for the characters - the producers have always been firmly opposed to any storytelling device that weakens the importance of the narrative or lessens the stakes, so I think one has to cause the other, or somehow they meet in the middle (doesn't seem possible at this point), but in any case, they are somehow both real without being two separate dimensions, realities, etc. What is particularly interesting to me is how many things are different in the LAX timeline - it's not just that the plane didn't crash, but so many other things that would not at all be affected by the Incident (unless you chalk it up to a sort of butterfly effect where their changing of things in the 70s led to such subtle changes as Jack's and Rose's roles on the flight being reversed (he's afraid of flying instead of her), or them sitting in a different row, or Shannon not being on the flight, or Charlie swallowing the drugs instead of flushing them, or Jin and Sun not being married yet this time around (apparently, they're not wearing wedding rings, and the lady in the airport calls her "Paik" and not "Kwon"), etc.). So whenever the "timeline" started to change, it was long before the flight, and I think it's the result of whatever is going to happen on the island in the next set of episodes or throughout the whole season... or something like that.

2) DESMOND BEING ON THE PLANE - I don't have time to fully develop this at the moment, but Desmond's mysterious appearance on the plane, and the insinuation that possibly no one else saw him, strikes me as awfully similar to the way Jacob would mysteriously appear off-island, seemingly wherever and however he wanted. At the end of this, could Desmond take Jacob's place on the island? Probably a long shot, but he's definitely supposed to be special, what with the "rules" not applying to him and all, so I'm trying to figure out where he fits in to the bigger picture. Of course, if there is some kind of succession for whatever Jacob's role is, it seems like Desmond would be kind of low on the list of candidates (Jack, a resurrected Locke, Sawyer... even Hurley??)

3) What's up with ONLY Jack having some kind of deja-vu on the plane and almost recognizing people? There must be something to this (and the blood on his neck?!), but it's probably too early to figure it out...



That's all I've got time for now, but there's a lot more rattling around up there... looking forward to hearing everyone else's theories.

OK - I'm caught up... as much as you can be with this show.

My current theories:

SPOILERS - Use SELECT-O-VISION to reveal!!!
1. There are at least 2 timelines - but a third is certainly possible. My theory:

Sideflash Timeline (I'm calling it 2004-A): Flight 815 makes it. No one's lives are changed - at first.
Post-Jughead Timeline (This is the "3-years later" one, so let's call it 2007): Them's the folks that are alive at the Temple right now
(Possibly) Unseen "Real" Timeline (Let's call it 2004): Lest we forget, the voyage back into time of the Losties changed things significantly. I'm wondering if there isn't a "real" timeline waiting... kinda like a timeline that got split between the other 2 that is waiting to be restored.

2. Desmond on 815. I think he's a ghost (for lack of a better word) - and I think Charlie's awareness that he shouldn't have survived his near-death in the bathroom is proof of a connection. Granted, if the Swan is never there, thanks to Jughead, then Desmond could certainly be on the flight. But the fact that NO ONE looked at him or responded to him other than Jack is a big flashing red light, IMO.

3. The Blood on Jack's Collar. This one I'm not so sure about. The best I can figure, based on this picture is that some of the blood on his right cheek and neck in the 1977 timeline stayed there when the timeline split. It's the thing that reminds Jack that he's in a new timeline. That's it.

4. "It's nice to see you without your chains". This remark caught me off-guard a bit. Why would Richard Alpert have chains? What / who is Richard Alpert? My guess is that the "chains" have something to do with Richard's statement in "The Incident" to Flocke that the reason he's unaging is because of Jacob. Without Jacob's "chains", Richard is now mortal. As to who he is... well... First - he's called "Richardus" - a Latin form - by Illana in The Incident. Alpert is a derivative of a Jewish name: Heilprin. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. Richard's probably a sailor on the Black Rock whose life was saved and extended by Jacob.

5. Speaking of saving lives... the pool. Maybe it's just me, but the group carrying Sayid up the stairs in his best crucifixion pose and then covering his body with water so that his wounds would be healed and his transgressions forgiven just screams allegory to me. Maybe it's just me.

6. I think the mysterious pillar of smoke seen a while back came from the Temple.

7. Here's a question: The Monster has obviously entered the Temple before (in "Dead is Dead") - so... what's the alarm at the Temple about? It's obviously found a way in.
END SPOILERS

Good SPOILER-HEAVY interview with Damon and Carlton over at EW.com that confirms some of the things we've been discussing (and knocking one of my theories clear out the window).

OK... LOST Update....

Episode 1 (LA X): We discover the timeline has split between "The Island Where the Jughead Detonation Didn't Work" and "The Sunken Island Where the Jughead Detonation Set About a Full Change in the Timeline". Those on the Island are now split between 4 factions: The Oceanic 815 Returners (Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Kate, etc.), The Others At the Temple (Dogen, Lennon, etc.) - both of whom are at The Temple, and The Invaders Who Came to Do Something (Ilana, Lapidus, Ben, etc.), and the Lockeness Monster (Locke, the knocked-out-cold Richard), based out of the Statue of Tawaret. Sayid dies and then is brought back to life, via a Mysterious Healing Pool that's seems to be broken. Off-Island, life continues in a very normal fashion for most.

Episode 2 (What Kate Does): On island, Sawyer, Kate, and Jin all abandon the Temple for various reasons. Sawyer goes off to be alone to mourn the death of Juliet and abandons Kate while Jin ends up the prisoner of the returned Claire. At the Temple, Jack's given a pill to make Sayid all better (aka "dead"), because he's now infected by "the sickness" that has infected Claire. Off-island, Claire and Kate share the birth of Aaron together.

Episode 3 (The Substitute): Sawyer goes on a journey of self-discovery assisted by The Lockeness Monster. Richard is set free and Lockeness is reminded by a weird blonde kid with bloody arms that there are rules. The Invader group buries RealLocke and Ben confesses to having murdered Locke. Sawyer discovers that there are "candidates" written on a wall in a cave. Lockeness Monster offers Sawyer a gift in exchange for loyalty. Off-island, Locke comes to terms with his handicap, is preparing to marry the woman of his dreams, is offered a job by lottery winner Hugo (and is interviewed by Rose, who is dying of cancer), and becomes a high school substitute teacher where the European History teacher is one Benjamin Linus.

Episode 4 (Lighthouse): Jack and Hugo head off to find a lighthouse and take part in an offer by the ghost of Jacob, which irritates Dogen (what doesn't irritate that man?). Jack breaks the lighthouse mirror (which seems to have the ability to see people all over the world - and their names are attached to their numbers - 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42), but Jacob's OK with that. Jin learns quickly that Claire's a class-1 nut who wants to kill Kate if she took Aaron. Off-island, Jack's a horrible divorced father with a virtuoso piano-playing son.

Episode 5 (Sundown): Sayid is given a mission to kill the Lockeness Monster by the same guy who tried to poison him. Claire enters the temple with a message, but is ignored and tossed in an oubliette. Kate returns and tells Claire that she's got Aaron and he's waiting for her (Claire's not pleased). Sayid stabs Lockeness (which doesn't work) and Lockeness send him back to the Temple with the message that at sundown, people can either join Lockeness or die. About half join Lockeness. Sayid and Dogen bond a little right before Sayid drags Dogen into the Mysterious Healing Pool and drowns him before slitting the throat of Lennon. This breaks the protection of the Temple and Smokey tears through like a steam train. Those who left survived, as did Kate and Claire (in the oubliette) and the Invader crew who sneaked in to rescue a few others before hiding in a hidden compartment. Interesting interaction between Ben and Sayid where Sayid confirms that there isn't any time left for him. Smokey's officially recruited crew now seems to contain Claire and Sayid (who look like cult members) and Kate, who's been suckered into following along by Claire. Off-island, Sayid defends his brother's family from bad men (including Keamy, who in the other timeline was also a bad man) and saves Jin in a restaurant freezer.

And so here we are:

1. The sideways timeline seems to be showing a "What If" Scenario. I'm sure the 2 lines will re-converge, but when and at what cost is the question now.

2. The promo seems to say that next week, Ben will face death. I'm pretty sure they won't give away a major character death in a promo 1 week ahead of time, so Ben's safe for now, but I'm betting on a Ben-centric episode. My personal theory is that much of what's happening in these final episodes will represent a redemptive thread for Ben.

3. The boy shows that there's something that's still governing the island and that neither Jacob nor the Lockeness Monster are "in charge".

4. There's going to be some dead people before this is over with. Lockeness continues to make deals with people to get their support, and so far, the 2 deals we've heard are very cryptic and given Lockeness' tendency to kill people, morbid: Sawyer can "go home" and Sayid can be reuinted with Nadia (who is dead). I think they're both toast.

5. Lockeness' skill at gaining followers seems to be in line with the old line that one of the Devil's best tricks isn't lying: it's telling the truth in an out-of-context way so as to manipulate the listener.

6. With all the "is Jacob really good" and "is Lockeness really bad" talk out there, I'll echo Doc Jansen on this one: Jacob is life, Lockeness is death. However, they are both subject to the rules of the game: some may be taken by one and some may be taken by the other - and breaking those rules has severe consequences. On a wider note, I think that the tug-of-war between Jacob and Lockeness may be reflected in the tug-of-war between Ben and Widmore. Both represent diametrically opposed characters who are not allowed to kill each other (per the episode where Ben shows up in Widmore's bedroom).

7. Balance seems to be a recurring theme in the big battle. Hmm.

Good thoughts, 5.

I disagree about Sawyer, though. That is, he may end up dead in the end (I think later, rather than sooner, if at all - he's one of the few who I can't imagine would NOT make it to the finale), but I think he's still not completely sold on Smokey's lies. I lean more towards the view (which I probably heard on a podcast, heh) that while he may be intrigued by Smokey's sales pitch, he's probably still plenty skeptical, and any apparent allegiance to Smokey will be part of a traditional Sawyer long con. In other words, I think he knows this guy is rotten (even if only on a gut level), but he's "keeping his enemies closer," so to speak; he realizes it wouldn't do him any good to openly oppose Fake Locke right now - at least until he knows more - so he's just doing a bit of strategic maneuvering at the moment.

At least, I hope so!! If anyone should be smart enough not to trust this guy and crafty enough to want to stay on his good side for as long as possible, I think it's Sawyer...

You may be right...

Latest Episode:

Episode 6 (Dr. Linus): In the sideways world, Ben's a teacher who takes care of his father at home with designs (with Leslie Artz, not seen since he exploded at the end of season 1) on becoming a school principal by outing an affair the principal's having with personnel. He backs off in order to let a student (Alex - his adopted daughter) get a good recommendation to Yale. Jack and Hurley discover Richard, who's decided he needs to die. They go to the Black Rock, find some dynamite, and Jack lights it for Richard (who can't kill himself because "it won't work"), and then waits with him. Apparently, "it can't happen" to Jack either. They leave together. Ben's part in the death of Jacob is discovered, and Ben is forced at gunpoint by Ilana to dig his own grave. While digging, Lockeness appears and offers Ben an out: run, grab the provided rifle to defend yourself, and join him. Ben runs, grabs the rifle, and instead of shooting Ilana, gives what I believe to be the first total, real explanation of his actions to anyone: he dedicated himself to Jacob's plans and ended up getting his adopted daughter killed - he took his vengeance on Jacob and now feels that Lockeness is the only one that'll have him. Ilana says "I'll have you". They reunite with Jack, Hurley, and Richard at the Beach and share a moment... unknowingly being spied upon by Charles Widmore in a submarine.

So far, this season has 4 great episodes (1, 3, 5, and 6), 1 good episode (4), and 1 eh episode (2). Waiting on Episode 7... unknown title at this time.

A friend of mine has been writing a blog about the final season, episode by episode. I look forward to each installment almost as much as I do the show. It's here: www.enjoydevisser.wordpress.com . Enjoy. Leave comments for him.

This show remains awesome. I definitely was not expecting SPOILER ALERT Sun and Jin's demise. Although it seemed to me they were leading up to killing Sayid ever since he turned over to the dark side.

Questions that come out of this episode:
Is Lapidus still alive?
Just what is Desmond's role in this whole thing.
Whatever happened to the boy in the jungle?

Is Lapidus still alive?
Somewhere. But not on the sub in the sub timeline.

Whatever happened to the boy in the jungle?
I think the boy is a judge of sorts. He's the rule-keeper, the equalizer. The judge and jury. When they talk about "the rules", he's the one who calls it.

Just what is Desmond's role in this whole thing.
Per Faraday: the rules don't apply to him.

We saw Lapidus heading off the sub when Jack was heading out with Sawyer, so I imagine he'll turn up soon.

I think the boy in the jungel is another one of Jacob's manifestations. He looks a bit like Jacob.

I think Desmond is the key to this whole business. After the end of this season's Desmond-centric episode, it appeared that Des is alive and completely aware in both time lines - and by aware I mean that he is wholly cognizant of what is going on in both simultaneously. He is who/what will ultimately resolve the split time line issue. I think Jack will be the one who brings us to that point (most likely a showdown with Flocke), but Des will be the catalyst.

A lot of what is happening in the flash sideways time line seems to go along with what Flocke is promising them - side with Smokey and you can have your old life back. Unfortunately, it's not the exact old life. Sayid is with Nadia, but she's married to his brother, etc. I think that once Jack has "activated" enough of the passengers from alt-815, Des will be the key to one or the other of the two time lines collapsing.

And the series ends Sunday. And my own theories... well...



I think I nailed this.



Ben's still alive. I still believe he's walking a redemptive path, and I think he'll be the key to killing Flocke.



Luke got this one.



Sayid's been reunited with Nadia... Fortunately, Sawyer's playing the long con. I think Ben may be doing the same. He was always better at it than Sawyer.



I still agree here.



Well, this one went out the window.

7. Balance seems to be a recurring theme in the big battle. Hmm.

The finale: Wow

In true Lost fashion it left some questions unanswered. Like why Eloise was trying to discourage Desmond.

Ugh.

[SPOILER WARNING!]

I seriously cannot imagine a more meaningless and frustrating and downright stupid end for the flash sideways timeline than what they gave us in the finale. After years of insisting that the original timeline was NOT purgatory, they waste our time in the final season by creating an alternate timeline that, in the end, is nothing more than a big fat purgatorical long-con. Seriously, if they understood that having the main timeline turn out to be purgatory would have been a terrible idea, why would they suddenly think it's a great idea to make the purgatory thing into a "sidways" timeline into this final season? Not only ridiculous, but also completely unnecessary (that is, it's not like this is a hole they had written themselves into early on, since they just invented the whole flash sideways thing this season!). So what we've been watching off the Island this whole season was really just a big cheat, and despite the most sincere assurances of the showrunners, none of it meant anything (i.e. what does it mean that Jack had a son in this imaginary spirit-dream-fairy realm? Why does it matter if Kate is innocent or not? Why are people born and why do they die if everyone in this timeline is already dead? What about Helen?)

Thankfully, other than the epic fail that was the flash sideways (as fun as they were to watch back when we thought they actually mattered), most of the on-Island stuff was pretty darn satisfying (save for some of the technical/mythological aspects, where it seems like they just make up the rules as they go along - like what exactly did Desmond do, why didn't it work the way they thought it would, what did Jack do, and why did it matter, etc.?). Up to halfway through, I was absolutely loving it, and really, up to the last ten minutes or so (the big "we're all dead" reveal) I was still pretty satisfied, but man, they blew it with the ambiguous flash sideways pluralistic this-is-what-Oprah's-idea-of-heaven-looks-like ending.

Oh well. If I just completely ignore the sideways timeline this season, I think it was a pretty good one on the whole (my favorite since Season 3, at least... probably). Still not quite as epic an ending as I hoped (so Desmond unplugs a thing and then Locke can be killed? That's cool, I guess, but there weren't a lot of twists and turns - there was no real jaw-dropping, mind-blowing moment, as there have been so often in LOST before). Hopefully upon re-watching I will be able to make more sense of it all enough to feel that it all came together in a truly satisfactory way, but as for now... yikes.

At least it's just a show

Just watched the final episode. No wonder there hasn't been much talk of it in the internet and very little will to spoil the ending as it was one of the biggest anti-climax ever created

Damon Lindelof, J. J. Abrams and Jeffrey Lieber are the biggest trolls in TV-history! I've got to applaud them for that!

It's rare that a tv show that's one of the best series ever for almost the whole time (I didn't like the first season but everything else after that has been amazing) ends up having this sloppy slap to a face in the final episode. I mean, I couldv'e liked a major punch to the face but as it was everything seemed extremely unimportant and somehting that just doesn't matter. The episode prior to the final episode STILL had this sense of "mysteries having a major conclusion" but the final episode basically forgot everything we'd been told about the Dharma initiative, time travelling, pressing the button to stop the apocalypse(or something like that), Walter, anything.


It was very very disappointing but I kinda liked this trolling approach to the final episode ("the smoke monster and everything can be explained scietifically", "it's not about purgatory", "the final episode will be heartwrenching and it will give answers to the mysteries" - something along those lines were really told by the creators but I found them all not being true at all)